Talk:Vlad
Speculation Should this page contain so much speculation? Specifically the current trivia items 6 and 7: With regards to trivia item 6; the mention of the Time Prophet's actor playing the aged Vlad is a valid trivia point but I don't feel there is a need to elaborate so much upon it in the trivia bullet, this may be better moved up into the description somewhere or a section for conjecture about Vlad while the original trivia point remains. Specifically; it isn't clear that Vlad is a re-animated Time Prophet, as if she were then her appearance would consistently be that of the Time Prophet, just as Kai's appearance is unchanging from when he died (other than the black motif of course). Trivia item 7 appears to be largely discourse about Season 4 as a whole, and I think may be better suited to an article on Season 4, or a separate article entirely discussing the canonical differences between Season 4 and previous seasons. The point about Vlad being ridiculously powerful compared to Kai and the Divine Shadow should be moved to a discussion section for Vlad's article, as above. It is worth also considering that other than Kai there is no evidence of a Divine Assassin ever having gone rogue, or a reason for one to do-so, which would seem to call into question the need for Vlad in the first place. Anyway, I may perform some of these changes myself at some point, but I wanted other's opinions first as I think the trivia is a bit too messy as it is. -- Haravikk 22:38, April 27, 2011 (UTC) :Thats why it is called Trivia - it the section where all the speculations and different opinions should be. Leave it as is. People should know about entire negligence of Vlad plot (which was written, btw, not by supreme beans). If you will move something, the whole Vlad plot mess will be not explained enough. Voodooman 00:05, April 28, 2011 (UTC) ::I don't want to get rid of it, I'm just not sure that having such lengthy descriptions in trivia is the right way to do it, as that's more for brief and interesting little facts. Such lengthy discussion might make more sense under a "Reception" or Criticism heading or something like that, to discuss fan-reaction to Vlad's appearance? -- Haravikk 08:14, April 28, 2011 (UTC) :::Well, trivia dont have any standards on length, trivia do not mean something short literally, at least not at wiki sites, it mean some additional information, that do not fit main description of subject, and this additional information could have any length it should have. I've seen much lengthy descriptions in trivia sections of various Wiki pages, and not one had problems with it ;-) Also this trivia is not completely "receptions" or "criticism" it mostly bunch of facts from various season, with description of contradiction between these facts, and thats not enough to start whole new sections like "reception" and "criticism". Voodooman 13:21, April 28, 2011 (UTC) ::::My point is that the 7th bullet point contains a lot of complaints against season 4 as a whole, it also goes into conjecture about the time prophet based upon her narrating Lexx 1.4 "Giga Shadow", which isn't necessarily evidence as it could simply be an excerpt from one of her earlier prophecies predicting the events witnessed in the episode. The time prophet is known to be alive when Kai visits her, and then [[His Divine Shadow visits some time later, after which he begins the destruction of Brunnis-2. Kai is then in service of the Divine Order for what, 1,000-2,000 years? It is likely the Time Prophet was killed by His Shadow during his visit and later turned into Vlad who could claim to have killed her for this reason. ::::In any event, the trivia only really needs to cover the basics of their points, as anything more involved should really be covered in the article, provided there is sufficient material. To this end, I've moved some slimmed down comments about the relative need for, and strength of, the Divine Executioners into the missing article for them. The existing trivia comments about the time prophet are sufficient I think. ::::Anyway, I haven't yet edited Vlad's article, but I have a proposed update to it under User:Haravikk/Vlad, which seems to cover everything to me in a slightly more logical format. Please look over the proposed Vlad article, and the new Divine Executioner article, as I think it covers what is needed in a more accessible way. -- Haravikk 16:18, April 28, 2011 (UTC) :::::I've gone and made the proposed updates to the Vlad page, I think it's neater overall with some pieces separated out into the Divine Executioner section. -- Haravikk 12:55, April 30, 2011 (UTC) :::::Well, that a good point, but not good enough to remove these facts from trivia, especially when we have speculations that Vlad could be time prophet, just base on actress. Using this logic we can than speculate that Dr. Rainbow and over 9000 roles played by Lex Giggeroff was reincarnation of last HDS, lol. We can even speculate that before Bunny managed to wake up on water, she spent some time after death in Brigadoom... just because Patricia played in it. Oh we can even speculate that this guy on White Trash planet, who was played by McManus, was also in fact reincarnation of Kai or his successor ak grand*grand*grand... son. Based on on this role of Mcmanus we can even come to crazy idea that before Kai died, he had a child and child survived and Kai was not in fact the last of the Brunnen-g. So if we have these crazy ideas in trivia, why u think removal of real facts about bad writing in season 4 and contradiction between season is good idea? Did you read drafts of earlier version of season 2 published by Lex Giggeroff? There is clear proof that during season 1 and 2 and up to negligent season 4, Time Prophet was alive and nor good Divine Shadow neither Vlad killed her. Here is this synopsis of that season 2 episode that was not shoot: THE RETURN OF HIS SHADOW PART TWO: 'TIME LOOP' The new incarnation of His Shadow is having a rough time. Its host brain was not 'vacced' (wiped clean), and is causing serious interference with the insect essence and its agenda. And, on a more crucial note, it turns out that Kai did not pass all of the essence into the larval Giga Shadow. His Shadow is therefore missing the thousands upon thousands of memories he should possess. He is unable to properly know himself and his role without them, and is determined to get them back. He sends several dispossessed clerics who are charged to get the memories from Kai. Most meet their deaths trying to obtain them, but one is eventually successful in retrieving the missing memories on a disk. The disk is returned to His Shadow, who transfers his essence through the ritual of "the kiss" to a clean, fully vacced host before incorporating them. This new His Shadow quickly realizes that he should have instructed the clerics to kill Kai, as he becomes aware of the PROPHECY again. Meanwhile, without the memories, Kai has turned into a form of vegetable. He reverts back to being a mindless assassin in waiting; his only reply to every question being "Who would you like me to kill, Divine Shadow?" With the help of 790, Zev and Stan are able to locate the planet of the Time Prophet. As it is incredibly small, they have to leave the Lexx (taking Kai with them) and approach it in a Moth. Zev asks the Time Prophet what is going to happen now, but the ancient seer is senile, cantankerous, and drunk. Her answers to Zev's questions are obtuse and contradictory, and she proves to be no help at all. However, when Zev asks her what their fate will be, the Time Prophet replies, "His Shadow is going to kill you all in about five minutes." They look to the Lexx in the distance, and see one of His Shadow's ships approaching it. Zev and Stan grab Kai and race toward the Lexx in their Moth, but they are too late. His Shadow gets on board and targets them in the Lexx's sights. He commands the great ship to blow them up-- --and the Lexx obliges. The Moth is destroyed and our heroes are all killed. His Shadow then turns the Lexx against the planet of the Time Prophet (with her on it) and blows it apart, and in the process accidentally breaking open a TIME LOOP. It is suddenly one hour earlier, and our heroes are alive again. They are able to use this second chance to avoid being blown up and to disable the Lexx before his Shadow can steal it. However, His Shadow manages to escape and returns to the New Cluster. None of their actions are able to save the Time Prophet. She is destroyed forever, an event she saw coming and was anxious to finally get to. ---- Can you see it now? Vlad wasnt planned, Time Prophet was alive and should be killed by LEXX under command of new his shadow and Vlad appearance pretty much negligent and contradicts everything. Voodooman 15:55, August 9, 2011 (UTC) ::I'm afraid I haven't the faintest idea what you're getting at; trivia isn't really a place for in-depth speculation, and my simplification of the trivia item into the current #6 is perfectly succinct, as it mentions the curious connection of Vlad to the Time Prophet, and how that seemingly contradicts her statement of killing her with a possible (but non canon) implication that this could have. ::What was there previously was a wide-ranging speculation that went on to complain about the overall quality of writing of season 4. Such things don't really have a place in an article like this; if they have a place anywhere it would be under a more general plot-holes/goofs section for season 4, but even then it would need to be kept simple, as a wiki is really supposed to present known facts (in this case within the fictional universe of Lexx) with only minor, if any, supposition. Trivia can then add extra, less important, information, but should really just be interesting snippets of information, and *brief* implications (if any) that they have, such as possible contradictions. Anything longer should either be part of the main article or, if largely goof/contradiction related, then a separate article for the purpose. ::I'll add just for clarification that I almost completely despised the entire fourth season, with the exception of the final episode which was a good closing to the show/end for Kai, and I hate Vlad as a character, but the purpose of a wiki is to convey canon material as accurately as possible, not far-reaching speculation or opinion. -- Haravikk 21:41, August 9, 2011 (UTC)